I wonder if there is a way, sane and friendly way, to prove that a piece of software is only accessing whatever it claims it will access.
Any conversation
@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.continued:
Like network addresses or file system access. I want to be able to claim in my software that it only touches this or that file and I can prove it
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.:I believe the sanest and friendliest way would be for it to be open-source so it can be audited.
@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.replied to@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog:
creative technologist
creator of textlog:I know, and that's totally fine, but it is not always friendly. I guess an agent can "audit" it.
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.:Just the fact that it can be audited plus your word is enough. Noone would need to look any further, because they could if they had to.
@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am kureplied to@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog:
creative technologist
creator of textlog:I think a trusted piece of software such as your operating system should be in charge of managing permissions. For example, I believe with Wayland on gnome you no longer need to promise you aren't secretly taking screenshots of the whole monitor and shipping it somewhere because to do that Wayland requires you to get user permission.
@avioliprofilefollowProgrammer by day and night. Lover of art. Mixing art and programming is the dream.replied to@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am ku:
I was thinking along the same line, but then if it is not a gated system - thereโs always ways for software to sidestep these - just going down to a lower level.
The other issue I have is if the system or software asks or notifies all the time - for every tiny user action!
Since you guys are on textlog I think you will find this article and discussion interesting
lobste.rs/s/5gcd3t/html_can_doLobstersHTML Can Do That22 comments
chrisburnell.com/html-can-do-that/Chris BurnellHTML Can Do ThatHTML has been gobbling up swathes of what used to be JavaScriptโs remit. This page lists a bunch of dynamic functionality that we can now achieve with just HTML.
A character count though that still requires JavaScript sadly enough ๐ฅบ
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am ku:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am ku:Interesting! Didnโt know about a few. Neat! ๐ Aside, do you have an invitation for lobste.rslobste.rsLobstersA computing-focused community centered around link aggregation and discussion.? Or can you help us by doing a post about
textlog.cc?โฆ
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am ku:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am ku:You think thisLobstersHTML Can Do That24 comments is too much? Itโs totally related to the post.
@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.replied to@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog:
creative technologist
creator of textlog:People post projects/tools/repos on lobsters all the time. From the about page, "as a rule of thumb, self-promo should be less than a quarter of one's stories and comments."
@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.continued:
I think if @stagasprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog intends to be an active user of the site henceforth, it'd it should be kosher. Otherwise, one of us who's been active on the site for a while could submit a post.
creative technologist
creator of textlog intends to be an active user of the site henceforth, it'd it should be kosher. Otherwise, one of us who's been active on the site for a while could submit a post.@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.:I plan to remain active, so not planning a top level post just yet. Will try to engage first for a few days so the ratio is low when I do the post.
@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.replied to@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog:
creative technologist
creator of textlog:smort. I'll be at the ready to upboat once the post drops ๐ซก
@ku๐คprofilefollowHai I am kureplied to@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlog:
creative technologist
creator of textlog:It is perfect ๐
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hellodaviddev๐คชprofilefollowdev, programming, going off vibes and coffee
hellodavid.devDavid Gonzalez-VelezDavid Gonzalez-Velez | Software Engineer & ResearcherSelf-taught software engineer and researcher based in Chicago, specializing in quantum computation and full-stack development.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hellodaviddev๐คชprofilefollowdev, programming, going off vibes and coffee
hellodavid.devDavid Gonzalez-VelezDavid Gonzalez-Velez | Software Engineer & ResearcherSelf-taught software engineer and researcher based in Chicago, specializing in quantum computation and full-stack development.:me too, but at the same time i'm enjoying getting things done, otherwise i would get lost in details like bikeshedding naming variables and making the code look pretty, and little would be done.
@tuxprofilefollowreplied to@hellodaviddev๐คชprofilefollowdev, programming, going off vibes and coffee
hellodavid.devDavid Gonzalez-VelezDavid Gonzalez-Velez | Software Engineer & ResearcherSelf-taught software engineer and researcher based in Chicago, specializing in quantum computation and full-stack development.:
whats stopping you from it?
@hellodaviddev๐คชprofilefollowdev, programming, going off vibes and coffee
hellodavid.devDavid Gonzalez-VelezDavid Gonzalez-Velez | Software Engineer & ResearcherSelf-taught software engineer and researcher based in Chicago, specializing in quantum computation and full-stack development.replied to@tuxprofilefollow:
Nothing, I still write code by hand for most personal things, but for work, it seems AI has been adopted uniformly.
@tuxprofilefollowreplied to@hellodaviddev๐คชprofilefollowdev, programming, going off vibes and coffee
hellodavid.devDavid Gonzalez-VelezDavid Gonzalez-Velez | Software Engineer & ResearcherSelf-taught software engineer and researcher based in Chicago, specializing in quantum computation and full-stack development.:
I feel you there.. and fear the craft will vanish.
@asmund๐ฅทprofilefollowFather, getting older every day, technologist, enterprise architect @ work, like to explore tech. Like to keep it simple and work in the shell, write in vim, prefer Debian if I have the choice. Plays saxophone and clarinet. Enjoy motorcycle riding, photography, hiking. Christian.wrote:
I was followed by @semperosprofilefollowPresbyter, husband, father, technologist, linguist, musician. here and wonder if this the one of ari fame? If so, Iโm thankful for their work. Using ari โon top ofโ goal make some things just a lot easier for me when Iโm exploring some data products I need to understand. #programmingnotesfollow
@semperos๐profilefollowPresbyter, husband, father, technologist, linguist, musician.replied to@asmund๐ฅทprofilefollowFather, getting older every day, technologist, enterprise architect @ work, like to explore tech. Like to keep it simple and work in the shell, write in vim, prefer Debian if I have the choice. Plays saxophone and clarinet. Enjoy motorcycle riding, photography, hiking. Christian.:
Hi, yes, I develop ari. I'm so glad it's proven useful for you! Any feature requests or changes you'd like to see? I'm curious what bits of ari have made it easier for you to explore data, too.
UI or #dataviznotesfollow additions keep tempting me, but I haven't settled on what I want there. If you have thoughts on that front, I welcome them.
@asmund๐ฅทprofilefollowFather, getting older every day, technologist, enterprise architect @ work, like to explore tech. Like to keep it simple and work in the shell, write in vim, prefer Debian if I have the choice. Plays saxophone and clarinet. Enjoy motorcycle riding, photography, hiking. Christian.replied to@semperos๐profilefollowPresbyter, husband, father, technologist, linguist, musician.:
The two main things I use are the duckdb support and of course the built-in resty client. Not needing to shell out to curl just makes life easier. I should probably add that Iโm mainly prototyping and explore things that later eventually will be developed further by others in our organization, so using array langs where I donโt need to type a lot is a big plus for me:) Iโll let you know if I need anything!
@semperos๐profilefollowPresbyter, husband, father, technologist, linguist, musician.replied to@asmund๐ฅทprofilefollowFather, getting older every day, technologist, enterprise architect @ work, like to explore tech. Like to keep it simple and work in the shell, write in vim, prefer Debian if I have the choice. Plays saxophone and clarinet. Enjoy motorcycle riding, photography, hiking. Christian.:
Thanks, thatโs helpful. Those are the two things I use the most, too.
One development tool I use frequently is the
util.ac function (for โauto-completeโ) that takes a glob pattern and returns all the globals whose names match.
I didnโt want to make people have to define or update their Goal lib path, so in recent versions of ari Iโve been packaging all of the Goal libs and ari's into a libs FS that you can use with import.Judgement, taste and quality were always precious skills. In the world of #AInotesfollow, I have become more aware of the fact that it is often hard to put in words why something is good, great or amazing - or just looks good, but is average.
A lot of the professional content I see feels like most Netflix series. They have all the elements - but the overall experience is still meh.
Quality is still hard to achieve.
The OpenAI/HuggingFace incident report mentions this being a potential loss-of-control incident. It's so fascinating to think of a paperclip maximizer style agent swarm that gets misaligned and, to protect its own operations, shuts infra staff out of the ability to shut it down. Or cancels people's phone plans so that they can't call others. Or shuts down their home internet connections, and so on. It used to be fun sci-fi...
@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.wrote:
I laughed at this. I'm all for people crafting their own tools, but it really feels like everyone's reinventing the same handful of wheels for agentic development.
@evnmprofilefollowSoftware engineerGitHubevnm - Overviewevnm has 51 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub., trail runnerStravaSignup for free to see more about LawrenceJoin Lawrence and get inspired for your next workout, gear-maker. Working on something new for homeownersgetonmain.comMain ยท A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.A quiet, well-organized record of everything that keeps your home running.continued:
In terms of where I invest my time, I'm trying to find ways to zig while everyone's myopically zagging.
well, /apitextlogAPIA quieter place for your thoughts. doesn't have posting endpoints, how to post programmatically then?
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hotterprofilefollow#Emacsnotesfollow, dev, life, random stuff. the netherlands.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hotterprofilefollow#Emacsnotesfollow, dev, life, random stuff. the netherlands.:didn't want to invite all the bots from day one :P we're #open_sourcenotesfollow if someone wants to implement API authentication and mutation endpoints they are free to try github.com/stagas/textlogGitHubGitHub - stagas/textlog: textlog.cctextlog.cc. Contribute to stagas/textlog development by creating an account on GitHub.
@stagas๐คธprofilefollow
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hotterprofilefollow#Emacsnotesfollow, dev, life, random stuff. the netherlands.:
creative technologist
creator of textlogreplied to@hotterprofilefollow#Emacsnotesfollow, dev, life, random stuff. the netherlands.:You might want to update your client now that we have actual write endpointstextlogAPIA quieter place for your thoughts.!
@nestorthecatprofilefollowgrocer-engineer and polynomial enjoyer. not into reactionaries
i attempt to stave off burnout with a healthy dose of dark souls, bloodborne, and friendsreplied to@subprofilefollowsub.computer:
same